Yes a more modern graphics card will help. The shadow maps and high resolution textures do make the card work harder. But I don't suggest buying one now as it is still quite a long time until release. We cannot give any estimate. I hope to be able to add graphics options to make it run better on older cards but maybe we can see about that when it gets to test patch stage.
NOTE: I'm just thinking out loud, these thoughts are how I imagine things going, not how it will actually happen, and they are not promises.
NOTE: I'm just thinking out loud, these thoughts are how I imagine things going, not how it will actually happen, and they are not promises.
I don't really have any difficulty thinking of a solution. I just don't want to release a test patch with this little update. It's on the list for the next patch but there is no time estimate for it.
By the way, I remembered why I changed to the new function. It wasn't actually to save the few lines of code with the convenient function. The main reason was that in the development version, I wanted a copy_file that preserved the file dates. The solution I'm happy with is to reinstate the old copy_file for the purpose of copying the downloaded files, but retain the new version for the development version purposes.
By the way, I remembered why I changed to the new function. It wasn't actually to save the few lines of code with the convenient function. The main reason was that in the development version, I wanted a copy_file that preserved the file dates. The solution I'm happy with is to reinstate the old copy_file for the purpose of copying the downloaded files, but retain the new version for the development version purposes.
OK - I've reproduced that too. When selecting "Open with Live for Speed" in Firefox's download dialog it is copied with read only attributes.
I wonder why that is. I suppose that temporary copy held by Firefox is read-only for some reason.
EDIT: I think it can be fixed by writing my own version of CopyFile. It would read the file and save a fresh copy of it with default attributes, disregarding the source file attributes. Only trouble is I don't want to get back into test patches now so it could be a long wait.
I wonder why that is. I suppose that temporary copy held by Firefox is read-only for some reason.
EDIT: I think it can be fixed by writing my own version of CopyFile. It would read the file and save a fresh copy of it with default attributes, disregarding the source file attributes. Only trouble is I don't want to get back into test patches now so it could be a long wait.
Last edited by Scawen, .
I can't deal with faulty anti virus software, of course. I don't know what could have gone wrong when you clicked Go. Do you get better results if you install a fresh version?
Thanks for the info. Just at the moment you are the only one to report a crash and we didn't get one in any of the recent test patches (other than one in early test patches that happened at startup and I believe we found the cause and fixed it). So I'm wondering if your computer could possibly be overheating as it is so hot. It could cause the CPU or memory to do something funny, so maybe you could open it and check for dust?
We haven't sent one. I'm not sure if we will or not, actually haven't discussed it with Victor yet.
I think mainly it is a case of getting used to it. I did include input from experienced editor users. It can do everything you could do and more, but with some confusion removed. Occasionally there is an extra key press though.
In the test patch forum I wrote an explanation including the reasons for some of the changes:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152-The-layout-editor-changes
We are working on new things. This test patch is something I was forced to work on due to the attacks in April. I added some autocross and InSim updates while we were at it.
A couple of weeks after the release of this full version, we plan to show some images of the new track updates Eric has been working on using the new graphics system which supports specular lighting and a new shadow system.
Hi there. Sorry about the long delay. It's nothing exciting. There were some more possible developments for the test patch, but they were not very interesting and other things came up. At this point we've decided not to go on working on the test patch. Better to release it as a full version and I can go on developing for the new version that Eric has been continuing to work on.
For the test patch, I did add the key to temporarily hide the object outlines. I went with ALT. CTRL+SHIFT seemed to interfere with other things and was confusing. I expect to release this minor test patch update in a few hours.
For the test patch, I did add the key to temporarily hide the object outlines. I went with ALT. CTRL+SHIFT seemed to interfere with other things and was confusing. I expect to release this minor test patch update in a few hours.
"What is your setting for Full-scene antialiasing? (Options - Graphics)"
Thanks for the test.
I'm not sure if you did a typo there. Did you mean AA in the final sentence above? As in antialiasing, not anisotropic filtering?
Yes, I noticed that. That's the reason for my question about AA. It's the only thing I can think of that should be better when you do switch ON postprocessing. Because in that case it uses 4xAA regardless of your setting.
The reason for that is, I believe 4xAA is the best result for the least minimal extra GPU usage. That's why mirrors and VR render target use 4xAA and that's why the postprocessing one does as well (as it was a quick add-on using some existing code). My understanding is the render target uses 4x the size of Z buffer when you use 4xAA. Higher AA settings use bigger and bigger Z buffer and it starts to become a memory access and processing issue. And regarding anisotropic filtering, higher AF settings cause the card to produce its own special anisotropic versions of textures in memory and the amount used is unpredictable (at least to me it is).
I am sure you have enough memory. But accessing so much of that memory and processing it every frame is always a problem, which is why half texture resolution can often give better frame rates. I'm not sure if AF (anisotropic filtering) setting should affect things differently in post processing or standard modes. But I must wait for your answer to that first question in this post.
Thanks for the test.
I'm not sure if you did a typo there. Did you mean AA in the final sentence above? As in antialiasing, not anisotropic filtering?
Yes, I noticed that. That's the reason for my question about AA. It's the only thing I can think of that should be better when you do switch ON postprocessing. Because in that case it uses 4xAA regardless of your setting.
The reason for that is, I believe 4xAA is the best result for the least minimal extra GPU usage. That's why mirrors and VR render target use 4xAA and that's why the postprocessing one does as well (as it was a quick add-on using some existing code). My understanding is the render target uses 4x the size of Z buffer when you use 4xAA. Higher AA settings use bigger and bigger Z buffer and it starts to become a memory access and processing issue. And regarding anisotropic filtering, higher AF settings cause the card to produce its own special anisotropic versions of textures in memory and the amount used is unpredictable (at least to me it is).
I am sure you have enough memory. But accessing so much of that memory and processing it every frame is always a problem, which is why half texture resolution can often give better frame rates. I'm not sure if AF (anisotropic filtering) setting should affect things differently in post processing or standard modes. But I must wait for your answer to that first question in this post.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Great, let us know how it goes!
I recommend test patch R19 as it's really stable.
I recommend test patch R19 as it's really stable.
I've fixed this in R19 which I hope to release today.
Yes, after you adjust the height of the objects in hand they are no longer identifiable as copies of the original objects.
It's just a short text that is sent in a single packet, which is limited by the current LFS packet system. The user doesn't usually have long to read it so it's supposed to be something really short they can read in a few seconds (I know it's sometimes longer if they are waiting for a track load and a lot of skin downloaded).
We are finished with raw files now. I think the skies will be supplied as dds files like the other textures. It's probably best to keep the raws for now but when the official patch comes you can delete all the raw files in the pic folder.
The wind turbines at BL and SO use a texture called "windgen"
I think this could be quite easy to do. A command that pastes a load of text onto the clipboard representing the current selection.
I think it's mainly a matter of choosing the right format.
Maybe there would be a number on the first line then subsequent lines have one object per line.
Such as: (this is completely made up)
3
56634, 24234, 56, 23, 129, 30
9934, 63543, 23, 122, 23, 90
5356, -33432, 80, 85, 23, 23
(possibly with spaces instead of commas, even easier to write a text parser that way)
Or would it be better to be really binary, like this:
2
fe65a1b6634e78ff
654de66c542fa344
I've done this in R19 which I hope to release this evening.
In some ways, I like your suggestions. It's the sort of thing I like to do but really you are talking about a track editor.
The concrete objects in the layout editor were really designed to allow people to build a bridge or make slight modifications so people could make tracks out of open configs.
Of course, people have taken it much further than it was ever intended and that is great. There's a line to be drawn between taking the layout editor further, and moving to a full track editor. Where that line is, I am not certain. But this is a compatible patch so new objects and different adjustments will not be added. The fine control you would like over pitch, width, etc, would require more bytes per object. The current objects are 8 bytes each - they are super compressed. It's a big change to do the things you are talking about, but this test patch is coming to an end so I can get back to the things I was working on before I was interrupted by the attacks. So it's really off topic and I'll move it to a separate thread.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92202
One thing, as cargame mentioned, there is already CTRL+left mouse button rectangle select.
Last edited by Scawen, .
We are getting very near to the end of this series of test patches now as I must get back to the real stuff I have been working until interrupted by the attacks.
I'll have a look at this, which is almost a bug, and see if I can implement those sub-mode states mentioned in your other post.
In the new graphics system that Eric is using to update the tracks, we have textures that use the alpha channel to control the shine level. So that would seem like a nice thing to consider on skins of the future but definitely not in this version.
You can press CTRL+C if you want to copy the objects.
Why this is, I have tried to explain in a special thread: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152
I'll have a look at this, which is almost a bug, and see if I can implement those sub-mode states mentioned in your other post.
In the new graphics system that Eric is using to update the tracks, we have textures that use the alpha channel to control the shine level. So that would seem like a nice thing to consider on skins of the future but definitely not in this version.
You can press CTRL+C if you want to copy the objects.
Why this is, I have tried to explain in a special thread: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152
That is the priority, yes.
These are the last few days of this test patch.
The full version is coming soon and I'm pleased it is more interesting (at least for some people) than simply a more robust way to connect to the master server and a fix for skin downloading.
These are the last few days of this test patch.
The full version is coming soon and I'm pleased it is more interesting (at least for some people) than simply a more robust way to connect to the master server and a fix for skin downloading.
The layout editor changes
For any of you who are interested in editing layouts but haven't been following the test patch thread. There are some quite significant changes to the layout editor which make it more usable.
Here's a description of the new changes and the reasons behind the changes: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152
Here's a description of the new changes and the reasons behind the changes: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152
The layout editor changes
The layout editor has changed. It is now more powerful and works more like other editors.
It now uses a CUT / COPY / PASTE system using the standard Windows keys CTRL+X/C/V
This is different from the old editor style which was based on a select / duplicate / move type of logic which had some limitations and caused some problems.
The problem:
The problem in the old system was that when you selected some objects, they were selected in two ways simultaneously.
1) Visible 'in hand' where your mouse was pointing, ready to be placed in the world
2) The original objects you had selected were still selected
This caused some confusion. For example, if you had some blue tyres and you wanted to place some red ones, you might click the colour and that would change the object in your hand as well as the one on the ground, previously placed or selected.
There are various other examples such as modification of concrete object heights and rotation of objects that could be confusing or annoying because of the old selection method.
The solution:
The updated editor moves to a different editor logic that should be more familiar because of its similarity with other editors. You can cut, copy and paste.
The real improvement now is that there is a complete separation between the world objects that have been selected, and a selection of objects 'in hand'. Only one of these types of selection is active at any time, so if you make any changes to their colour, dimensions, heading, altitude then it only affects the one active selection.
How to use it:
You create a real world selection, as before, by clicking on object selection buttons. There are two ways to select multiple objects.
1) Hold CTRL and click on object selection buttons
2) Hold CTRL and draw a selection rectangle using the left mouse button
After making your selection you can adjust it in various ways using the on screen buttons or keys.
Maybe you would like to duplicate the selected objects. Press COPY and you will see a live selection in hand. Point to where you would like to place the objects and press PASTE or O to put the new objects there.
Maybe you would like to move your selected objects. There are two ways to do this.
1) Press CUT. The original objects are deleted and you will see them as a live selection in hand located at the mouse cursor. You can now make modifications to the selection as required before pasting or placing it in a new location.
2) Press COPY. You will see a live selection in hand while the original objects remain in the world. Make any changes to the selection then press M to move the original objects to their new position.
You can paste a copied selection in two ways:
1) O key: Place objects and keep a selection in hand to be placed again
2) PASTE: Paste the objects and the new objects will be selected, not leaving a selection in hand
Note: you can switch between the two selection styles by pressing COPY.
1) Real world objects selected -> press COPY -> now you have a selection in hand
2) In hand selection -> press COPY to UN-COPY the selection, i.e. reverts to the world object selection
Note: new PGUP and PGDN keys to adjust height for concrete and other floating objects.
Test patch download: EDIT: This is now in the official version 0.6T
It now uses a CUT / COPY / PASTE system using the standard Windows keys CTRL+X/C/V
This is different from the old editor style which was based on a select / duplicate / move type of logic which had some limitations and caused some problems.
The problem:
The problem in the old system was that when you selected some objects, they were selected in two ways simultaneously.
1) Visible 'in hand' where your mouse was pointing, ready to be placed in the world
2) The original objects you had selected were still selected
This caused some confusion. For example, if you had some blue tyres and you wanted to place some red ones, you might click the colour and that would change the object in your hand as well as the one on the ground, previously placed or selected.
There are various other examples such as modification of concrete object heights and rotation of objects that could be confusing or annoying because of the old selection method.
The solution:
The updated editor moves to a different editor logic that should be more familiar because of its similarity with other editors. You can cut, copy and paste.
The real improvement now is that there is a complete separation between the world objects that have been selected, and a selection of objects 'in hand'. Only one of these types of selection is active at any time, so if you make any changes to their colour, dimensions, heading, altitude then it only affects the one active selection.
How to use it:
You create a real world selection, as before, by clicking on object selection buttons. There are two ways to select multiple objects.
1) Hold CTRL and click on object selection buttons
2) Hold CTRL and draw a selection rectangle using the left mouse button
After making your selection you can adjust it in various ways using the on screen buttons or keys.
Maybe you would like to duplicate the selected objects. Press COPY and you will see a live selection in hand. Point to where you would like to place the objects and press PASTE or O to put the new objects there.
Maybe you would like to move your selected objects. There are two ways to do this.
1) Press CUT. The original objects are deleted and you will see them as a live selection in hand located at the mouse cursor. You can now make modifications to the selection as required before pasting or placing it in a new location.
2) Press COPY. You will see a live selection in hand while the original objects remain in the world. Make any changes to the selection then press M to move the original objects to their new position.
You can paste a copied selection in two ways:
1) O key: Place objects and keep a selection in hand to be placed again
2) PASTE: Paste the objects and the new objects will be selected, not leaving a selection in hand
Note: you can switch between the two selection styles by pressing COPY.
1) Real world objects selected -> press COPY -> now you have a selection in hand
2) In hand selection -> press COPY to UN-COPY the selection, i.e. reverts to the world object selection
Note: new PGUP and PGDN keys to adjust height for concrete and other floating objects.
Test patch download: EDIT: This is now in the official version 0.6T
Last edited by Scawen, .
Yes, because you can only have a world selection or a clipboard selection but not both, which is the solution to various problems. If it went straight to clipboard selection by default then you would have to re-select the newly placed world objects if you needed to adjust them for any reason.
You can do multiple pastes by pressing O or CTRL+V again, the only difference is that you can't see the selection in hand before you press O. You can make it visible by pressing CTRL+C but that is not required.
[EDIT: one quote and answer removed - better answer below]
I understand that but there is a good reason for it.
This is because the layout objects are squeezed into a tiny 8 bytes each to allow it to be quickly downloaded as you join a server. That is the reason for the restricted resolution. It's not new with this test patch.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Test Patch R13 is now available for testing.
The layout editor has been updated a lot so if you ever use the layout editor, please give it a go!
Changes from 0.6R12 to 0.6R13 :
Layout editor :
New cut / copy / paste system replaces old duplicate / move system
PGUP and PGDN can now be used to adjust Z value of selected objects
C key now clears selected object type as well as selected objects
It is now possible to set marshall circles to have zero diameter
Objects and marshall circles can now be selected at the same time
You can hold SHIFT to keep objects selected when exiting edit mode
Interface :
Added two more translation strings to avoid misleading messages
Additional translation strings for new functions in layout editor
Clip mouse to screen is now CTRL+M as CTRL+C is now used for copy
More translations updated - Thank you translators!
InSim :
New values TTC_SEL_START and TTC_SEL_STOP for IS_TTC
New value PMO_GET_Z for IS_AXM packet to report Z values
New value PMO_SELECTION_REAL for PMOFlags with PMO_SELECTION
Simplified SubMode values for free view in IS_CIM
Misc :
New check for corrupted 3D models to avoid possible crash on load
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
The layout editor has been updated a lot so if you ever use the layout editor, please give it a go!
Changes from 0.6R12 to 0.6R13 :
Layout editor :
New cut / copy / paste system replaces old duplicate / move system
PGUP and PGDN can now be used to adjust Z value of selected objects
C key now clears selected object type as well as selected objects
It is now possible to set marshall circles to have zero diameter
Objects and marshall circles can now be selected at the same time
You can hold SHIFT to keep objects selected when exiting edit mode
Interface :
Added two more translation strings to avoid misleading messages
Additional translation strings for new functions in layout editor
Clip mouse to screen is now CTRL+M as CTRL+C is now used for copy
More translations updated - Thank you translators!
InSim :
New values TTC_SEL_START and TTC_SEL_STOP for IS_TTC
New value PMO_GET_Z for IS_AXM packet to report Z values
New value PMO_SELECTION_REAL for PMOFlags with PMO_SELECTION
Simplified SubMode values for free view in IS_CIM
Misc :
New check for corrupted 3D models to avoid possible crash on load
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
I'd be interested to know why you don't want to use the test patch. Any problem with it? Now's the time to report it so we make sure the final version doesn't have any issues.
But yeah it's very easy to revert you simply use the R exe. Usually it's recommended that you save the exe before using a test patch but I don't seem to have written that this time.
EDIT: Added a note about that in the first post.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Information: We did intend to release the full version this weekend but for various reasons we have decided to go on a few more days. I hope to put another test patch here on Monday or Tuesday. But for now it seems R12 works well.
Test Patch R12 is now available.
Changes from 0.6R11 to 0.6R12 :
Interface :
New free view camera position text command /cp
/cp will copy a text camera position to the clipboard
The resulting text can be saved in a text file, forum, etc. or into
another instance of Live for Speed to reproduce.the camera position
Many translations updated - Thank you translators!
Graphics :
Slight reduction in some excessively bright driver models
InSim :
New value PMO_POSITION for IS_AXM packet to report a blank position
New packet IS_CIM reports a connection's interface / editor mode
Download :
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
Changes from 0.6R11 to 0.6R12 :
Interface :
New free view camera position text command /cp
/cp will copy a text camera position to the clipboard
The resulting text can be saved in a text file, forum, etc. or into
another instance of Live for Speed to reproduce.the camera position
Many translations updated - Thank you translators!
Graphics :
Slight reduction in some excessively bright driver models
InSim :
New value PMO_POSITION for IS_AXM packet to report a blank position
New packet IS_CIM reports a connection's interface / editor mode
Download :
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
That is really off topic as it's nothing to do with the test patch.
But, for a quick answer, the new tyre physics is based on a mathematical model for producing the output forces from the current state of the tyre (velocity, rotation, camber etc.) instead of a 'made up' combination of lateral and longitudinal forces from 'made up' slip curves to try to match the data. It provides a more realistic response for steering and application of throttle and brakes, affect of camber and so on. It feels good to drive but is not finished and I would like to get it done for the big update we are currently working on (which is a really important graphical update).
I guess you could find more information about the tyre model by searching for my posts, but you would have to search back quite far. I'm a bit too busy to go looking for it now.
But, for a quick answer, the new tyre physics is based on a mathematical model for producing the output forces from the current state of the tyre (velocity, rotation, camber etc.) instead of a 'made up' combination of lateral and longitudinal forces from 'made up' slip curves to try to match the data. It provides a more realistic response for steering and application of throttle and brakes, affect of camber and so on. It feels good to drive but is not finished and I would like to get it done for the big update we are currently working on (which is a really important graphical update).
I guess you could find more information about the tyre model by searching for my posts, but you would have to search back quite far. I'm a bit too busy to go looking for it now.
Test Patch R11 is now available with more graphical fixes.
Changes from 0.6R9 to 0.6R11 :
More informative error report for "Unknown file transfer error"
FIX : Lighting restored to most objects (to appear darker in shade)
FIX : Some objects at Blackwood looked the same e.g. ads over pits
FIX : XR front lights were plain white in the recent test patches
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
Changes from 0.6R9 to 0.6R11 :
More informative error report for "Unknown file transfer error"
FIX : Lighting restored to most objects (to appear darker in shade)
FIX : Some objects at Blackwood looked the same e.g. ads over pits
FIX : XR front lights were plain white in the recent test patches
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
Test Patch R10 is now available.
Changes from 0.6R9 to 0.6R10 :
More informative error report for "Unknown file transfer error"
Lighting restored to most objects (so they appear darker in shade)
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
I know there are more things to fix but I wanted to get this one out more quickly so we can solve the skin download issue that affects some people. Anyone else can also benefit from the restored lighting on objects.
Changes from 0.6R9 to 0.6R10 :
More informative error report for "Unknown file transfer error"
Lighting restored to most objects (so they appear darker in shade)
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
I know there are more things to fix but I wanted to get this one out more quickly so we can solve the skin download issue that affects some people. Anyone else can also benefit from the restored lighting on objects.
Thanks, please check here in a couple of hours - I'll try to post an R10 test that shows the actual error text so we can figure this out.
Yes, we can't make the old version download skins with the new website protection.
The fix is in the test patch: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
The fix is in the test patch: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
Tnanks. I've made a note to add a more informative error message in the next test patch.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG